Alan Mairson has written a very interesting article. Much could be said about it, but I would like to make only a few comments.
(1) Right now, it is possible to debate whether or not Jews should remain in the Western Diaspora. There may come a time, however, when the conversation may be greatly clarified. Look how much things have changed for the worse, for Jews in Europe and the USA, in the past few decades. That process may very well continue and I see no reason why it shouldn't. In fact, a major reversal would take something of a miracle, or a number of miracles.
(2) At the end, he writes: "There’s room for everyone at the Enlightenment’s long, welcoming table. Reason, not revelation, shall light the road ahead."
Like many others, I believe the so-called Enlightenment has failed. The denial of God and the reliance upon corrupt and fallible human reason alone is at the heart of many (if not all) of our problems.
"America contains multitudes. We are a nation of immigrants." True
"We are 'a city upon a hill, the eyes of all people are upon us.” And what do they see? Many people look at America today from the outside and are not impressed. Many people are looking at America from the inside and are also not impressed.
"Diversity is our strength. We shall overcome." Diversity used to be a strength, in conjunction with many other factors (such as minimal government, the Constitution and the rule of law, a wider Christian influence, and the free enterprise system). But whether or not we shall overcome with a very different kind of diversity, including Islam, increasing governmental tyranny, and a broken border, remains to be seen. It is not an article of faith - or shouldn't be anyway.
(3) All of that can be debated. But I was perturbed by the concluding remarks stating that "America is a Christian nation," and as such does not welcome Jews. (a) Surely it should be evident that the people in America most hostile to Jews today come from the Muslim and secular communities. I say "secular" because the false charge that Israel is a colonialist, imperialist entity, is not a Christian one. (b) America is not a Christian nation in any meaningful sense. It is deeply secularized in many ways, thanks to the false and corrupting influence of the so-called Enlightenment.
Jesus said "Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it." America has never been a truly Christian nation. The Christian influence used to be very strong - and I do not object as some do to the term "Judaeo-Christian" - but I would be surprised if as many as 10% of Americans today were seriously committed to following the example of the biblical Christ.
However many serious, Bible-believing Christians there might be, they are not the one who are calling the shots in America today.
Thanks much for your message, and my apologies for the delay in responding….
>> “Right now, it is possible to debate whether or not Jews should remain in the Western Diaspora…” <<
I think this debate can certainly take place within the Jewish community. But when my non-Jewish neighbors start having that conversation, I worry: The only reason why we’d leave our homes and make aliyah is if these same neighbors said: Eh, whattaya gonna do about the Jew hatred? This always happens. It’s the way of the world.
>> “There may come a time, however, when the conversation may be greatly clarified. Look how much things have changed for the worse, for Jews in Europe and the USA, in the past few decades. That process may very well continue and I see no reason why it shouldn’t. <<
I can think of many reasons why this process shouldn’t continue: It’s a fundamental betrayal of the American project. It’s a rejection of George Washington’s promise to the Jews of Rhode Island. It’s an admission by the champions of Liberalism that the Enlightenment was a mistake. And I don’t endorse any of that.
>> In fact, a major reversal would take something of a miracle, or a number of miracles.<<
To quote Al Michaels: “Do you believe in miracles??!!” (I do.)
>> Many people are looking at America from the inside and are also not impressed. <<
True. Time for all of us to work harder, rethink our commitments, and pledge to fulfill our country's promise.
>> I was perturbed by the concluding remarks stating that "America is a Christian nation," and as such does not welcome Jews. <<
I understand. And I know many Christians who are wonderful allies of diaspora Jews and Israel. My concern is that some on the Right love Zionism but when it comes to Jews — meh. Zionism feeds the Right's nationalistic passions. Is there also a threat on the Left? Absolutely. Those folks hate Zionism but can tolerate Jews as long as we generally keep our mouths shut. So, yes… both sides! :-)
>> I would be surprised if as many as 10% of Americans today were seriously committed to following the example of the biblical Christ. <<
I’d also be surprised.
I have no problem with Christianity. In fact, I wish that most churches were thriving (I think). I get nervous when Christians effectively say: “You know, we haven’t done a very good job of making our case on its merits and opening people’s eyes to the truth of the Gospel. So to spread the Word, we will now seize the reigns of state power and shove this stuff down everyone’s throats.”
This has happened before and it can easily happen again.
Thanks again for your thoughtful message. I appreciate it.
No need to mention the delay, I am sometimes slow myself.
Although I didn’t say so, I did think that the debate about whether or not to remain in foreign countries is a Jewish one. It is no concern of mine, except for the fact that large numbers of Jews leaving because life in the West was no longer safe would mean that there were real problems that in the end would affect not only Jews but everyone.
About non-Jewish neighbors having that conversation, I don’t think that is going on to any great extent. You may find some comments here and there but I think the vast majority of ordinary people here in the US have no problem with Jews and currently feel they are free to stay or not as they like.
"The only reason why we’d leave our homes and make aliyah is if these same neighbors said: Eh, whattaya gonna do about the Jew hatred? This always happens. It’s the way of the world."
I don’t claim to have in depth knowledge of the Jewish community, but I would think it should take something more serious than that to make people want to leave. It is far short of active hostility – maybe a cloud on the horizon at most.
About my contention that present negative trends affecting Jews will probably continue, you respond that there are many reasons why such trends should not continue:
"It’s a fundamental betrayal of the American project. It’s a rejection of George Washington’s promise to the Jews of Rhode Island. It’s an admission by the champions of Liberalism that the Enlightenment was a mistake. And I don’t endorse any of that."
Much of what we see in government and society today is fundamental betrayal of the American project, in my view at any rate.
Moreover, many today are incapable of conceiving the original American project. Many others are overtly hostile to it. To them, what George Washington might have said is completely irrelevant at best. He was a rich, white male racist, and the Constitution is an obstacle to their dreams of a socialist paradise in which they will be able to tell everyone else what to do.. And, for many, the principles of the Enlightenment are irrelevant as well. They don’t even know what those principles are.
Back in the 1970s, an American Christian writer, Francis Schaeffer, was predicting (in The Church at the End of the 20th Century) that the decline of traditional values ultimately derived from the Bible would end in totalitarianism – a totalitarianism either from the political left, or from the establishment. That possibility seems closer today.
You may not endorse a repudiation of the Enlightenment and of the Constitution and of the rule of law, but many people do. Many people did not endorse the dictatorships that came to power in China, Russia and Germany either. Often what sane and rational people of good will want is irrelevant.
When it comes to a miraculous reversal of this situation, you ask if I believe in miracles. I definitely do. I like that saying, “In order to be a realist, you have to believe in miracles.” But miracles can’t be counted on. Many times there has been no miracle, but rather disaster.
You agree with me that America is not looking so impressive these days, saying “True. Time for all of us to work harder, rethink our commitments, and pledge to fulfill our country's promise.”
That’s a laudable attitude, but there are many people who think differently. They want to radically change America and their concerns are ideology or even just plain raw power, not the national interest or public well-being. Others are apathetic and drifting.
"I know many Christians who are wonderful allies of diaspora Jews and Israel. My concern is that some on the Right love Zionism but when it comes to Jews — meh. Zionism feeds the Right's nationalistic passions. Is there also a threat on the Left? Absolutely. Those folks hate Zionism but can tolerate Jews as long as we generally keep our mouths shut."
I don’t see how anybody can love Zionism yet have no regard for the Jewish people. It seems odd to me that people would be enthusiastic for Israel but dislike Jews. I don’t know anyone like that. Could it be that you are attaching too much weight to odd comments on the internet?
I also don’t see how Zionism feeds the Right’s nationalistic passions. I don’t see much nationalistic passion on the right, but rather a desire to restore America to what it was. Again, there may be some people saying all kinds of things on the fringes of the internet, but I think many on the right only desire economic liberty, limited government, and freedom from the crazy delusions of leftists ideologues who want to remake America in their image.
Also, the idea of tolerating Jews only as long as they keep their mouth shut is foreign to me. There are those who strenuously object to the Israeli lobby, but people generally have a favorable opinion of American Jews as law abiding and making real contributions to American society.
Your whole perception of the right is very different from mine. For example, you are concerned about Christians who say “You know, we haven’t done a very good job of making our case on its merits and opening people’s eyes to the truth of the Gospel. So to spread the Word, we will now seize the reigns of state power and shove this stuff down everyone’s throats.”
"This has happened before and it can easily happen again."
As far as I can see, it is the alphabet people, the climate change extremists, the woke-ites and other assorted leftists, and government bureaucrats who are laboring diligently to impose their extreme visions on people and even to remake America with no regard for what the average people might say.
Christians wanting to seize state power is (1) a complete impossibility since serious Christians are on the fringes of society now, and (2) Jesus said “My kingdom is not of this world,” and seizing political power is not an essential part of the Christian message – but in a democracy, Christians have just as much right as anyone else to argue for their views and support candidates who will represent their values. Surely people who believe abortion is a crime and homosexual marriage is an impossibility have just as much right to make their voices heard as their opponents do.
In rare cases where they did achieve political dominance, such as Puritan New England or Calvin’s Geneva, that was not the result of a seizure of power, but of overwhelming consensus in very limited communities.
As to this happening before, I understand that as a reference to Nazi Germany (correct me if I am wrong). But the Nazis were not motivated by religious values. I even wrote a book on that, years, ago (Hitler, the Holocaust and the Bible) and became quite interested in the origins of National Socialism in 19th-century secularism (modern secular anti-Judaism being very different from traditional religious anti-Judaism).
Richard Weikart also wrote an interesting book, Hitler’s Ethic: The Nazi Pursuit of Evolutionary Progress. Hitler did have a sort of value system, but it was not based on the Bible.
I still maintain that human reason is inadequate. Look at the French Revolution. Nobody made more noise about “reason” and “rights” than the revolutionaries, yet their revolution collapsed into bloodshed and tyranny, and ended in Napoleon.
Reason without higher principles is dangerous. Tearing up the Versailles treaty, rearming Germany, and seizing more territory for Lebensraum, are very rational, if you accept certain false values as a starting point.
Dear Alan - I believe Ehud is correct (I am, of course, a gentile - but hopefully a 'righteous one' and a Christian Zionist). However, I do believe, that as long as the strength of the Judeo-Christian ethos prevails in the US that Jews would be able to thrive - not smoothly as the toxic Palestinianism is probably there to stay and metastasise... In the long run, and considering the persistent thrust of history to annihilate the Jews from the days of Pharaoh and Moses, through Haman, Mordechai and Esther to empires, nations and even the church of the Middle Ages and eventually the Shoah and the ensuing Arab attempts at 'cleansing' the Middle East as well as Iran with its genocidal aims and worldwide influence, I see only one assured and truly safe place for Jews - Israel.
Hi Charles... Thanks for your message. I could write volumes in response, but here are a few thoughts...
- You write that the "one one assured and truly safe place for Jews" is Israel. Has it been a safe place for them over the past 75 years? Safer than almost everywhere in the West?
- I'm developing a new appreciation for the many blessings of Christian Zionism, and since you identify as a member of that tribe, may I ask you the question I ask with monotonous regularity? Specifically: What exactly is supposed to happen when all the Jewish exiles return to their ancestral homeland? What does a Christian Zionist believe is advanced by such a migration? ... Put another way: Is the "ingathering of the exiles" a precursor to the Second Coming? And if the Ingathering is a good thing, then is more of it better?
- Obviously, I think Ehud is wrong. Well, not wrong, exactly. I think he sees part of the big picture. I think that's all any of us can do. While I understand that Ehud is looking out for what he sees as the best interests of diaspora Jews, I still don't understand what he thinks will happen when we all "come home." Do you?
- I know Judeo-Christian is a common construction, but I'm afraid it papers over a critical issue. The obvious one: Was He or wasn't he? ... I don't know if there's a way to explore that question without lighting a fuse, so I'm not convinced the conversation is a good one to have. That said, it's still one of the skeleton keys to unlocking a few of mysteries that surround us.
Thanks again for reading & sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it.
Yes, Israel needs American Jews and American Jews need Israel.
The answer to what to do about the surge in violence and Jew-hate -- "Exit or Voice", "Fight or Flight" -- is a personal one. Life is still good, and good for Jews, in the US. (I'd argue that the center of Jewish gravity is just moving from North to South, from NYC to Miami.)
But in Europe it is bad and getting worse. It feels like only a matter of time before it's time to go.
I don't necessarily think you're wrong, Naro. Believing that somehow Jews in the North American diaspora have solved the puzzle of Jewish existence is the height of chutzpah. But to believe that the same thing is going to happen to us again and again -- that's probably the most anti-Jewish idea of all.
Magnificent musings! I feel unworthy to comment, and maybe I shouldn’t at four in the morning, crapped out, yawning, so will be brief.
• Your concern (Schectter’s) about the end of the West is at odds with fears about the rise of an exclusivist version of a Christian nation. If Athens + Jerusalem is what constitutes the West, it’s the repaganization we see around us that threatens its continuation, just as it did in Germany. Vibrant faith in Britain ended the slave trade and gave us the Balfour Declaration. And I contend it’s the loss of Christian faith in Britain, not its ascendancy, what gave us Roger Waters, George Galloway and Jeremy Corbyn.
• I’m not, though, saying that there aren’t elements of the Christian or pseudo-Christian Right that might ultimately be inimical to Jews. Sadly there are, although as you seem to be realizing it’s not the philosemitic Christian Zionists. Rather the threat is genuinely antisemitic tropes wielded by idiosyncratic churches, “ministries,” personalities here and there, some are trad Catholics, some are Calvinists. But even here there is hope, for example one very influential Calvinist group slowly taking over Moscow, Idaho, has been greatly troubled by yet another Calvinist church/ministry/podcast in Ogden, Utah pushing these tropes. The Muscovites in turn collaborated with others to produce The Antioch Declaration which will bring you cheer:
• Finally, in my view you need to seriously rethink your children-of-the-Enlightenment stance(s). “Reason, not revelation” is inadequate to sustain human rights. Only if the Creator exists and endows these can we say, as the Declaration does, that these are indeed real and “unalienable.” America, as my limited reading, understanding has it, is the product not of the Continental Enlightenment but the Anglo-Scottish version, friendlier to faith, populated by figures like John Locke and Adam Smith
• My view as set forth here may be unfounded or mistaken, but I think it checks out, it fits the facts insofar as we can clearly see that the campus tentifada and other “progressive” Left manifestations of Jew hatred are not driven by any version of Christian nationalism but by its fiercest opponents.
Anyway, thank you for your superb exploration of these questions today 🤓
Wonderful to read your voice again. Hope all is well…
Re: Balfour, pagans, end of the slave trade, Roger Waters, et al — You’re not wrong. But as the saying goes: Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.
>> the threat is genuinely antisemitic tropes wielded by idiosyncratic churches, “ministries,” personalities here and there, some are trad Catholics, some are Calvinists.
Much of what you write to me suggests there’s a real, authentic Christianity out there, and there are the imposters. But I’m afraid there’s something about the Christian Story that seeds all the varieties that you don’t consider authentic. I think we need to re-examine that (narrative) seed. (Same goes for us Jews.)
>> Finally, in my view you need to seriously rethink your children-of-the-Enlightenment stance(s). … America, as my limited reading, understanding has it, is the product not of the Continental Enlightenment but the Anglo-Scottish version, friendlier to faith, populated by figures like John Locke and Adam Smith
I was trying to at least allude to the argument, ultimately embraced by Thomas Jefferson after some intellectual off-roading, that the American Founding is something qualitatively different from the French. Apart from Thomas Paine on a bad day, America had nothing like “Écrasez l’infâme!” and no “Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.”
America, I’m contending, upheld religion as a needed source of virtue, of morality because it was drawing on a different version of the Enlightenment.
“Reason” here was not a euphemism for atheism, and indeed we could view our rights as unalienable, as pre-existing, pre-political, not grants of the State, only for having their origin and basis in the Creator.
As for the Christian story, I do sometimes wish the Almighty hadn’t paid us the compliment that we were sharp enough to notice that those wielding the phrase “the Jews” in the New Testament were themselves Jewish, therefore they must be using it as a technical term to refer to one particular group or caste of Jews.
This sort of thing can be addressed in the footnotes of the Story, but it’s still true of Jesus (if the Story is true) that “He came unto His own, and His own received Him not,” that the first-century Jewish response to Jesus was a rerun of our frequent response to previous prophets: some smallish remnant is willing to listen, embrace the message, but most ignore or resist, preoccupied with other matters, other ideas, other loves.
This aspect is, you’re right, an unavoidable part of the Christian story. What’s not unavoidable, thankfully, is Gentile Christians who will love their neighbor.
So maybe I just need to read more in the literature of this National Conservatism, to understand precisely why its leading figures cannot bring themselves to let America be America, and find a principle of unity, a basis for morality, for human rights, in Theism, or at minimum, Deism.
We’ve talked before perhaps of Patrick Deneen’s thesis, which I find absurd, that somehow the rotted liberalism of Pelosi, Schumer, Obergefell, Bostock is the liberalism of Jefferson and Madison. No, the Founders and Framers did not hand us all a cosmic blank check to write in whatever we wished.
America’s ordered liberty is not libertinism but is hemmed in by the legitimate demands of virtue, morality, the common good. Not all laws are unconstitutional! 🤓
There are many countries around the world were Judaism indeed ended - by extermination, by persecution, by literal expulsion (Algeria, Poland), and mostly by virulent antisemitism. There are countries where it’s unlikely Jews have to flee, like the US, and there are those so far to the left, so inline with being violent useful idiots for Islamist terrorist forces, that it’s insane to stay. Anyone wants to be Jewish (other than an antizionist token Jew dancing monkey) in Ireland? Do people really want to remain in the ever increasingly dangerous and hostile UK and France? Neor is right, and likely Judaism will end in allegedly ‘progressive’ EU countries that turn a blind eye to the violence of the far-left and Muslims. To stay there is insane and dangerous.
I agree with most of what you write here, AB. The winds are blowing in the wrong direction. And if I thought Israel was the answer, I'd move. But as I've written elsewhere, Israel is less an answer than a question. I don't mean to be cute here. And I'm not playing word games. I'm interested in what's driving all the hatred you eloquently describe -- a hatred that doesn't magically disappear when the ingathering reaches its conclusion.
Whatever a final ingathering can achieve it has already done: The third Jewish commonwealth is back on the map... and back on the stage of history. Does it drive the rest of the world crazy? Yup! But that's not a problem that's solved by my moving anywhere.
Thanks for reading... and for your comment. I appreciate it.
Israel is less an answer? It’s been a super simple answer whenever it’s come down to being the backstop in the event of open antisemitism. Israel exists to prevent persecuted Jews from becoming stateless, and it’s done that more than the rest of the democratic world combined. Even the great USA has never been there in all cases to absorb all Jews who needed refuge. I’m sure it’s unnecessary to remind everyone how the US sent Jews escaping Europe back into the jaws of Nazism in the late 1930s and early 1940s.
I myself live in the awesome US of A, a proud naturalized citizen. US Jews can move from vile antisemitic cities like Seattle to better ones in less ridiculously “Blue” parts of the country. That’s a great option most European Jews don’t have. Hopefully this never changes, but it has changed for Canadian Jews already.
Absolutely right, Mr Nelson! But not simply a survival hedge. I think diaspora Jews have something of value to add to our next chapter. Just look at the rabbis: they never would have found their mojo if they didn't leave home. Come to think of it, neither would Abraham.
I'm not sure why Ehud thinks all the Jewish eggs belong in one basket.
I'm flattered that you credit me with the authorship of the principal of the Ingathering of the Exiles, but it is not mine. That has been the Jewish story for ages. You, holding your eggs back, are authoring a new story. You are saying: "Next year not in Jerusalem...for the good of the Jews."
P.S. “The phrase “next year in Jerusalem” (L'Shana Haba'ah) originated from liturgical poems (Piyutim) that were used in Jewish communities in the 10th century...." …
Moses had the oral and the written law. He received the whole Megillah. And he didn’t go into the land. He stopped just short. Some of us are Joshua & Caleb. Some of us have other roles to play. It’s a big tent.
Here’s a compromise: Next time you’re over here, I’ll meet you for breakfast at https://lindajeansrestaurantmv.com/ & we can resolve our differences. Pancakes will be my treat. 😊
Hi Rivka, Thanks for your message. And yes, one day I'll probably write about it at length. For now, you can get a taste of what happened in this post -- especially the part about the woman in Kentucky.
Hi again... The choice of analogy is what caught my eye. The rise and fall of the Roman empire is a useful example. But Jews should also consult their own examples: Twice into the Promised Land, and twice it ended in catastrophe. The question for me is not why Rome fell apart; the question is, why did we?
America today has questions on basic values. I am guessing but I would imagine that Vietnam had deeper divisions, but less question marks on core values.
I'm sat in the Staff Room of a school in Tel-Aviv. I should be marrying exams instead of reading this. So, having read the start, I'll write a brief initial response to get it off my chest. (Relevant: Having been born in Israel to Israeli parents and spent the first three years of my life here, I then spent 20 years growing up in England with an extremely English and extremely Jewish step-father).
Brief response:
There are two sides to every coin. Every coin needs two sides, otherwise it is an etching. The Jewish world and the Jewish People need both sides, Israel and the Diaspora, always in tension, never completely understanding each other. Without either we would be just an etching.
A regrettable reality is that Israel is simply too small a country to ever be truly secure. You know, Israel is about the size of New York City.
Israel: about 10 million
NYC: about 9 million
An Israeli might reply, "We need our own country, because what if America goes Nazi?"
Ok, that could happen. And if it did, Israel would then be over. It's not clear that Israel could survive even if America only quietly ignored Israel.
Imho, American Jews made the right choice. Live in the world's leading economic and military power, and do everything you can to help steer it in the right direction. That's where the "redeem the world" action would seem to be.
>> "We need our own country, because what if America goes Nazi?"
This has long been the refrain of many Jews, especially in the wake of the Holocaust. But the truth is, it's a lame answer. Not because it's wrong but because it misses the point. The Land wasn't intended to be simply a refuge from Pharaohs then and now; The Land is a major plot point -- a real, physical fact -- that asks the world an uncomfortable question: Is the Jewish Story true?
To respond "yes" is to open up a bunch of other questions that we've been running from since we got tossed out of Eden. Chief among them: Who's in charge here? And we keep answering: "Us. We're in charge. No one will tell us what to do. We will build Babel after Babel, worshipping false idols like technology, weaponry, and Artificial Intelligence. Nothing can stop us. WE are gods."
To which the Voice of Jewish (and Christian) tradition says: Ooookay... if that's what you kids want! Have fun storming the castle!
You write, "The Land is a major plot point -- a real, physical fact -- that asks the world an uncomfortable question: Is the Jewish Story true?"
I stand corrected. You're right, and I completely missed that point.
According to near death experience reports, the story is essentially true, except for the part about it being an explicitly Jewish or Christian story. Put another way, God exists, but is not anybody's property. Or so that story goes.
Alan Mairson has written a very interesting article. Much could be said about it, but I would like to make only a few comments.
(1) Right now, it is possible to debate whether or not Jews should remain in the Western Diaspora. There may come a time, however, when the conversation may be greatly clarified. Look how much things have changed for the worse, for Jews in Europe and the USA, in the past few decades. That process may very well continue and I see no reason why it shouldn't. In fact, a major reversal would take something of a miracle, or a number of miracles.
(2) At the end, he writes: "There’s room for everyone at the Enlightenment’s long, welcoming table. Reason, not revelation, shall light the road ahead."
Like many others, I believe the so-called Enlightenment has failed. The denial of God and the reliance upon corrupt and fallible human reason alone is at the heart of many (if not all) of our problems.
"America contains multitudes. We are a nation of immigrants." True
"We are 'a city upon a hill, the eyes of all people are upon us.” And what do they see? Many people look at America today from the outside and are not impressed. Many people are looking at America from the inside and are also not impressed.
"Diversity is our strength. We shall overcome." Diversity used to be a strength, in conjunction with many other factors (such as minimal government, the Constitution and the rule of law, a wider Christian influence, and the free enterprise system). But whether or not we shall overcome with a very different kind of diversity, including Islam, increasing governmental tyranny, and a broken border, remains to be seen. It is not an article of faith - or shouldn't be anyway.
(3) All of that can be debated. But I was perturbed by the concluding remarks stating that "America is a Christian nation," and as such does not welcome Jews. (a) Surely it should be evident that the people in America most hostile to Jews today come from the Muslim and secular communities. I say "secular" because the false charge that Israel is a colonialist, imperialist entity, is not a Christian one. (b) America is not a Christian nation in any meaningful sense. It is deeply secularized in many ways, thanks to the false and corrupting influence of the so-called Enlightenment.
Jesus said "Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it." America has never been a truly Christian nation. The Christian influence used to be very strong - and I do not object as some do to the term "Judaeo-Christian" - but I would be surprised if as many as 10% of Americans today were seriously committed to following the example of the biblical Christ.
However many serious, Bible-believing Christians there might be, they are not the one who are calling the shots in America today.
Hey Joe,
Thanks much for your message, and my apologies for the delay in responding….
>> “Right now, it is possible to debate whether or not Jews should remain in the Western Diaspora…” <<
I think this debate can certainly take place within the Jewish community. But when my non-Jewish neighbors start having that conversation, I worry: The only reason why we’d leave our homes and make aliyah is if these same neighbors said: Eh, whattaya gonna do about the Jew hatred? This always happens. It’s the way of the world.
>> “There may come a time, however, when the conversation may be greatly clarified. Look how much things have changed for the worse, for Jews in Europe and the USA, in the past few decades. That process may very well continue and I see no reason why it shouldn’t. <<
I can think of many reasons why this process shouldn’t continue: It’s a fundamental betrayal of the American project. It’s a rejection of George Washington’s promise to the Jews of Rhode Island. It’s an admission by the champions of Liberalism that the Enlightenment was a mistake. And I don’t endorse any of that.
>> In fact, a major reversal would take something of a miracle, or a number of miracles.<<
To quote Al Michaels: “Do you believe in miracles??!!” (I do.)
>> Many people are looking at America from the inside and are also not impressed. <<
True. Time for all of us to work harder, rethink our commitments, and pledge to fulfill our country's promise.
>> I was perturbed by the concluding remarks stating that "America is a Christian nation," and as such does not welcome Jews. <<
I understand. And I know many Christians who are wonderful allies of diaspora Jews and Israel. My concern is that some on the Right love Zionism but when it comes to Jews — meh. Zionism feeds the Right's nationalistic passions. Is there also a threat on the Left? Absolutely. Those folks hate Zionism but can tolerate Jews as long as we generally keep our mouths shut. So, yes… both sides! :-)
>> I would be surprised if as many as 10% of Americans today were seriously committed to following the example of the biblical Christ. <<
I’d also be surprised.
I have no problem with Christianity. In fact, I wish that most churches were thriving (I think). I get nervous when Christians effectively say: “You know, we haven’t done a very good job of making our case on its merits and opening people’s eyes to the truth of the Gospel. So to spread the Word, we will now seize the reigns of state power and shove this stuff down everyone’s throats.”
This has happened before and it can easily happen again.
Thanks again for your thoughtful message. I appreciate it.
Thanks for your comments Alan,
No need to mention the delay, I am sometimes slow myself.
Although I didn’t say so, I did think that the debate about whether or not to remain in foreign countries is a Jewish one. It is no concern of mine, except for the fact that large numbers of Jews leaving because life in the West was no longer safe would mean that there were real problems that in the end would affect not only Jews but everyone.
About non-Jewish neighbors having that conversation, I don’t think that is going on to any great extent. You may find some comments here and there but I think the vast majority of ordinary people here in the US have no problem with Jews and currently feel they are free to stay or not as they like.
"The only reason why we’d leave our homes and make aliyah is if these same neighbors said: Eh, whattaya gonna do about the Jew hatred? This always happens. It’s the way of the world."
I don’t claim to have in depth knowledge of the Jewish community, but I would think it should take something more serious than that to make people want to leave. It is far short of active hostility – maybe a cloud on the horizon at most.
About my contention that present negative trends affecting Jews will probably continue, you respond that there are many reasons why such trends should not continue:
"It’s a fundamental betrayal of the American project. It’s a rejection of George Washington’s promise to the Jews of Rhode Island. It’s an admission by the champions of Liberalism that the Enlightenment was a mistake. And I don’t endorse any of that."
Much of what we see in government and society today is fundamental betrayal of the American project, in my view at any rate.
Moreover, many today are incapable of conceiving the original American project. Many others are overtly hostile to it. To them, what George Washington might have said is completely irrelevant at best. He was a rich, white male racist, and the Constitution is an obstacle to their dreams of a socialist paradise in which they will be able to tell everyone else what to do.. And, for many, the principles of the Enlightenment are irrelevant as well. They don’t even know what those principles are.
Back in the 1970s, an American Christian writer, Francis Schaeffer, was predicting (in The Church at the End of the 20th Century) that the decline of traditional values ultimately derived from the Bible would end in totalitarianism – a totalitarianism either from the political left, or from the establishment. That possibility seems closer today.
You may not endorse a repudiation of the Enlightenment and of the Constitution and of the rule of law, but many people do. Many people did not endorse the dictatorships that came to power in China, Russia and Germany either. Often what sane and rational people of good will want is irrelevant.
When it comes to a miraculous reversal of this situation, you ask if I believe in miracles. I definitely do. I like that saying, “In order to be a realist, you have to believe in miracles.” But miracles can’t be counted on. Many times there has been no miracle, but rather disaster.
You agree with me that America is not looking so impressive these days, saying “True. Time for all of us to work harder, rethink our commitments, and pledge to fulfill our country's promise.”
That’s a laudable attitude, but there are many people who think differently. They want to radically change America and their concerns are ideology or even just plain raw power, not the national interest or public well-being. Others are apathetic and drifting.
"I know many Christians who are wonderful allies of diaspora Jews and Israel. My concern is that some on the Right love Zionism but when it comes to Jews — meh. Zionism feeds the Right's nationalistic passions. Is there also a threat on the Left? Absolutely. Those folks hate Zionism but can tolerate Jews as long as we generally keep our mouths shut."
I don’t see how anybody can love Zionism yet have no regard for the Jewish people. It seems odd to me that people would be enthusiastic for Israel but dislike Jews. I don’t know anyone like that. Could it be that you are attaching too much weight to odd comments on the internet?
I also don’t see how Zionism feeds the Right’s nationalistic passions. I don’t see much nationalistic passion on the right, but rather a desire to restore America to what it was. Again, there may be some people saying all kinds of things on the fringes of the internet, but I think many on the right only desire economic liberty, limited government, and freedom from the crazy delusions of leftists ideologues who want to remake America in their image.
Also, the idea of tolerating Jews only as long as they keep their mouth shut is foreign to me. There are those who strenuously object to the Israeli lobby, but people generally have a favorable opinion of American Jews as law abiding and making real contributions to American society.
Your whole perception of the right is very different from mine. For example, you are concerned about Christians who say “You know, we haven’t done a very good job of making our case on its merits and opening people’s eyes to the truth of the Gospel. So to spread the Word, we will now seize the reigns of state power and shove this stuff down everyone’s throats.”
"This has happened before and it can easily happen again."
As far as I can see, it is the alphabet people, the climate change extremists, the woke-ites and other assorted leftists, and government bureaucrats who are laboring diligently to impose their extreme visions on people and even to remake America with no regard for what the average people might say.
Christians wanting to seize state power is (1) a complete impossibility since serious Christians are on the fringes of society now, and (2) Jesus said “My kingdom is not of this world,” and seizing political power is not an essential part of the Christian message – but in a democracy, Christians have just as much right as anyone else to argue for their views and support candidates who will represent their values. Surely people who believe abortion is a crime and homosexual marriage is an impossibility have just as much right to make their voices heard as their opponents do.
In rare cases where they did achieve political dominance, such as Puritan New England or Calvin’s Geneva, that was not the result of a seizure of power, but of overwhelming consensus in very limited communities.
As to this happening before, I understand that as a reference to Nazi Germany (correct me if I am wrong). But the Nazis were not motivated by religious values. I even wrote a book on that, years, ago (Hitler, the Holocaust and the Bible) and became quite interested in the origins of National Socialism in 19th-century secularism (modern secular anti-Judaism being very different from traditional religious anti-Judaism).
Richard Weikart also wrote an interesting book, Hitler’s Ethic: The Nazi Pursuit of Evolutionary Progress. Hitler did have a sort of value system, but it was not based on the Bible.
I still maintain that human reason is inadequate. Look at the French Revolution. Nobody made more noise about “reason” and “rights” than the revolutionaries, yet their revolution collapsed into bloodshed and tyranny, and ended in Napoleon.
Reason without higher principles is dangerous. Tearing up the Versailles treaty, rearming Germany, and seizing more territory for Lebensraum, are very rational, if you accept certain false values as a starting point.
‘The West is finished’ is true. I’ve been seeing it for a long time. No place for Jewish.
I haven’t given up yet. :-)
Dear Alan - I believe Ehud is correct (I am, of course, a gentile - but hopefully a 'righteous one' and a Christian Zionist). However, I do believe, that as long as the strength of the Judeo-Christian ethos prevails in the US that Jews would be able to thrive - not smoothly as the toxic Palestinianism is probably there to stay and metastasise... In the long run, and considering the persistent thrust of history to annihilate the Jews from the days of Pharaoh and Moses, through Haman, Mordechai and Esther to empires, nations and even the church of the Middle Ages and eventually the Shoah and the ensuing Arab attempts at 'cleansing' the Middle East as well as Iran with its genocidal aims and worldwide influence, I see only one assured and truly safe place for Jews - Israel.
Hi Charles... Thanks for your message. I could write volumes in response, but here are a few thoughts...
- You write that the "one one assured and truly safe place for Jews" is Israel. Has it been a safe place for them over the past 75 years? Safer than almost everywhere in the West?
- I'm developing a new appreciation for the many blessings of Christian Zionism, and since you identify as a member of that tribe, may I ask you the question I ask with monotonous regularity? Specifically: What exactly is supposed to happen when all the Jewish exiles return to their ancestral homeland? What does a Christian Zionist believe is advanced by such a migration? ... Put another way: Is the "ingathering of the exiles" a precursor to the Second Coming? And if the Ingathering is a good thing, then is more of it better?
- Obviously, I think Ehud is wrong. Well, not wrong, exactly. I think he sees part of the big picture. I think that's all any of us can do. While I understand that Ehud is looking out for what he sees as the best interests of diaspora Jews, I still don't understand what he thinks will happen when we all "come home." Do you?
- I know Judeo-Christian is a common construction, but I'm afraid it papers over a critical issue. The obvious one: Was He or wasn't he? ... I don't know if there's a way to explore that question without lighting a fuse, so I'm not convinced the conversation is a good one to have. That said, it's still one of the skeleton keys to unlocking a few of mysteries that surround us.
Thanks again for reading & sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it.
Yes, Israel needs American Jews and American Jews need Israel.
The answer to what to do about the surge in violence and Jew-hate -- "Exit or Voice", "Fight or Flight" -- is a personal one. Life is still good, and good for Jews, in the US. (I'd argue that the center of Jewish gravity is just moving from North to South, from NYC to Miami.)
But in Europe it is bad and getting worse. It feels like only a matter of time before it's time to go.
I don't necessarily think you're wrong, Naro. Believing that somehow Jews in the North American diaspora have solved the puzzle of Jewish existence is the height of chutzpah. But to believe that the same thing is going to happen to us again and again -- that's probably the most anti-Jewish idea of all.
Alan, sir ~
Magnificent musings! I feel unworthy to comment, and maybe I shouldn’t at four in the morning, crapped out, yawning, so will be brief.
• Your concern (Schectter’s) about the end of the West is at odds with fears about the rise of an exclusivist version of a Christian nation. If Athens + Jerusalem is what constitutes the West, it’s the repaganization we see around us that threatens its continuation, just as it did in Germany. Vibrant faith in Britain ended the slave trade and gave us the Balfour Declaration. And I contend it’s the loss of Christian faith in Britain, not its ascendancy, what gave us Roger Waters, George Galloway and Jeremy Corbyn.
• I’m not, though, saying that there aren’t elements of the Christian or pseudo-Christian Right that might ultimately be inimical to Jews. Sadly there are, although as you seem to be realizing it’s not the philosemitic Christian Zionists. Rather the threat is genuinely antisemitic tropes wielded by idiosyncratic churches, “ministries,” personalities here and there, some are trad Catholics, some are Calvinists. But even here there is hope, for example one very influential Calvinist group slowly taking over Moscow, Idaho, has been greatly troubled by yet another Calvinist church/ministry/podcast in Ogden, Utah pushing these tropes. The Muscovites in turn collaborated with others to produce The Antioch Declaration which will bring you cheer:
https://antiochdeclaration.com/
• Finally, in my view you need to seriously rethink your children-of-the-Enlightenment stance(s). “Reason, not revelation” is inadequate to sustain human rights. Only if the Creator exists and endows these can we say, as the Declaration does, that these are indeed real and “unalienable.” America, as my limited reading, understanding has it, is the product not of the Continental Enlightenment but the Anglo-Scottish version, friendlier to faith, populated by figures like John Locke and Adam Smith
• My view as set forth here may be unfounded or mistaken, but I think it checks out, it fits the facts insofar as we can clearly see that the campus tentifada and other “progressive” Left manifestations of Jew hatred are not driven by any version of Christian nationalism but by its fiercest opponents.
Anyway, thank you for your superb exploration of these questions today 🤓
Mr. Segal, sir!
Wonderful to read your voice again. Hope all is well…
Re: Balfour, pagans, end of the slave trade, Roger Waters, et al — You’re not wrong. But as the saying goes: Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.
>> the threat is genuinely antisemitic tropes wielded by idiosyncratic churches, “ministries,” personalities here and there, some are trad Catholics, some are Calvinists.
Much of what you write to me suggests there’s a real, authentic Christianity out there, and there are the imposters. But I’m afraid there’s something about the Christian Story that seeds all the varieties that you don’t consider authentic. I think we need to re-examine that (narrative) seed. (Same goes for us Jews.)
>> Finally, in my view you need to seriously rethink your children-of-the-Enlightenment stance(s). … America, as my limited reading, understanding has it, is the product not of the Continental Enlightenment but the Anglo-Scottish version, friendlier to faith, populated by figures like John Locke and Adam Smith
John Locke? I’m afraid not. John Locke is the bogeyman to the ascendent Christian Right, including the champions of the "Anglo-Scottish version." Sharing this again: https://outofbabel.substack.com/p/high-on-his-own-supply
>> Left manifestations of Jew hatred are not driven by any version of Christian nationalism but by its fiercest opponents.
I agree!
Which means I should probably quit while we’re ahead! :-)
Howdy! Okay, so maybe Locke wasn’t where I should have gone, although he is defended from some of the charges against him here:
https://stream.org/john-locke-was-a-christian-humanist-not-a-forefather-of-the-aclu/
I was trying to at least allude to the argument, ultimately embraced by Thomas Jefferson after some intellectual off-roading, that the American Founding is something qualitatively different from the French. Apart from Thomas Paine on a bad day, America had nothing like “Écrasez l’infâme!” and no “Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.”
America, I’m contending, upheld religion as a needed source of virtue, of morality because it was drawing on a different version of the Enlightenment.
“Reason” here was not a euphemism for atheism, and indeed we could view our rights as unalienable, as pre-existing, pre-political, not grants of the State, only for having their origin and basis in the Creator.
As for the Christian story, I do sometimes wish the Almighty hadn’t paid us the compliment that we were sharp enough to notice that those wielding the phrase “the Jews” in the New Testament were themselves Jewish, therefore they must be using it as a technical term to refer to one particular group or caste of Jews.
This sort of thing can be addressed in the footnotes of the Story, but it’s still true of Jesus (if the Story is true) that “He came unto His own, and His own received Him not,” that the first-century Jewish response to Jesus was a rerun of our frequent response to previous prophets: some smallish remnant is willing to listen, embrace the message, but most ignore or resist, preoccupied with other matters, other ideas, other loves.
This aspect is, you’re right, an unavoidable part of the Christian story. What’s not unavoidable, thankfully, is Gentile Christians who will love their neighbor.
So maybe I just need to read more in the literature of this National Conservatism, to understand precisely why its leading figures cannot bring themselves to let America be America, and find a principle of unity, a basis for morality, for human rights, in Theism, or at minimum, Deism.
https://www.firstthings.com/article/2005/01/the-deist-minimum
We’ve talked before perhaps of Patrick Deneen’s thesis, which I find absurd, that somehow the rotted liberalism of Pelosi, Schumer, Obergefell, Bostock is the liberalism of Jefferson and Madison. No, the Founders and Framers did not hand us all a cosmic blank check to write in whatever we wished.
America’s ordered liberty is not libertinism but is hemmed in by the legitimate demands of virtue, morality, the common good. Not all laws are unconstitutional! 🤓
There are many countries around the world were Judaism indeed ended - by extermination, by persecution, by literal expulsion (Algeria, Poland), and mostly by virulent antisemitism. There are countries where it’s unlikely Jews have to flee, like the US, and there are those so far to the left, so inline with being violent useful idiots for Islamist terrorist forces, that it’s insane to stay. Anyone wants to be Jewish (other than an antizionist token Jew dancing monkey) in Ireland? Do people really want to remain in the ever increasingly dangerous and hostile UK and France? Neor is right, and likely Judaism will end in allegedly ‘progressive’ EU countries that turn a blind eye to the violence of the far-left and Muslims. To stay there is insane and dangerous.
I agree with most of what you write here, AB. The winds are blowing in the wrong direction. And if I thought Israel was the answer, I'd move. But as I've written elsewhere, Israel is less an answer than a question. I don't mean to be cute here. And I'm not playing word games. I'm interested in what's driving all the hatred you eloquently describe -- a hatred that doesn't magically disappear when the ingathering reaches its conclusion.
Whatever a final ingathering can achieve it has already done: The third Jewish commonwealth is back on the map... and back on the stage of history. Does it drive the rest of the world crazy? Yup! But that's not a problem that's solved by my moving anywhere.
Thanks for reading... and for your comment. I appreciate it.
Israel is less an answer? It’s been a super simple answer whenever it’s come down to being the backstop in the event of open antisemitism. Israel exists to prevent persecuted Jews from becoming stateless, and it’s done that more than the rest of the democratic world combined. Even the great USA has never been there in all cases to absorb all Jews who needed refuge. I’m sure it’s unnecessary to remind everyone how the US sent Jews escaping Europe back into the jaws of Nazism in the late 1930s and early 1940s.
I myself live in the awesome US of A, a proud naturalized citizen. US Jews can move from vile antisemitic cities like Seattle to better ones in less ridiculously “Blue” parts of the country. That’s a great option most European Jews don’t have. Hopefully this never changes, but it has changed for Canadian Jews already.
I would think in terms of anti-fragility, that the Diaspora is an important hedge.
Absolutely right, Mr Nelson! But not simply a survival hedge. I think diaspora Jews have something of value to add to our next chapter. Just look at the rabbis: they never would have found their mojo if they didn't leave home. Come to think of it, neither would Abraham.
I'm not sure why Ehud thinks all the Jewish eggs belong in one basket.
I'm flattered that you credit me with the authorship of the principal of the Ingathering of the Exiles, but it is not mine. That has been the Jewish story for ages. You, holding your eggs back, are authoring a new story. You are saying: "Next year not in Jerusalem...for the good of the Jews."
P.S. “The phrase “next year in Jerusalem” (L'Shana Haba'ah) originated from liturgical poems (Piyutim) that were used in Jewish communities in the 10th century...." …
10th century! Always with the innovations! 😊
Alright, you win. The Jews of the Diaspora have only been saying it for a thousand years.
Moses had the oral and the written law. He received the whole Megillah. And he didn’t go into the land. He stopped just short. Some of us are Joshua & Caleb. Some of us have other roles to play. It’s a big tent.
Repeat after me: Next Year In Jerusalem. I’ll meet you at the airport, Alan.
Here’s a compromise: Next time you’re over here, I’ll meet you for breakfast at https://lindajeansrestaurantmv.com/ & we can resolve our differences. Pancakes will be my treat. 😊
We might have a kashrut problem there. We can go to Chabad for Shabbat. They are 100 yards from the last house I lived in on Martha’s Vineyard.
I think that this is a subtext of Alan's. I'd like to hear what he has to say.
see above
“Then, in my mid-twenties, I too underwent a conversion of sorts: I’m no longer an atheist,”
A believer? I would love to hear more about that.
Hi Rivka, Thanks for your message. And yes, one day I'll probably write about it at length. For now, you can get a taste of what happened in this post -- especially the part about the woman in Kentucky.
https://outofbabel.substack.com/p/welcoming-the-stranger
The analogy to Rome is that the whole developed world is becoming undone; it’s not like WWII when some countries were still morally generally intact.
Hi again... The choice of analogy is what caught my eye. The rise and fall of the Roman empire is a useful example. But Jews should also consult their own examples: Twice into the Promised Land, and twice it ended in catastrophe. The question for me is not why Rome fell apart; the question is, why did we?
Too much infighting.
We, thousands of years later, are still Jewish.
We haven’t lost our fundamental moral bearings.
The Rome analogy is that the West has.
America today has questions on basic values. I am guessing but I would imagine that Vietnam had deeper divisions, but less question marks on core values.
I'm sat in the Staff Room of a school in Tel-Aviv. I should be marrying exams instead of reading this. So, having read the start, I'll write a brief initial response to get it off my chest. (Relevant: Having been born in Israel to Israeli parents and spent the first three years of my life here, I then spent 20 years growing up in England with an extremely English and extremely Jewish step-father).
Brief response:
There are two sides to every coin. Every coin needs two sides, otherwise it is an etching. The Jewish world and the Jewish People need both sides, Israel and the Diaspora, always in tension, never completely understanding each other. Without either we would be just an etching.
Thank you, Udi. I agree completely.
I wonder what Ehud would say in response.
A regrettable reality is that Israel is simply too small a country to ever be truly secure. You know, Israel is about the size of New York City.
Israel: about 10 million
NYC: about 9 million
An Israeli might reply, "We need our own country, because what if America goes Nazi?"
Ok, that could happen. And if it did, Israel would then be over. It's not clear that Israel could survive even if America only quietly ignored Israel.
Imho, American Jews made the right choice. Live in the world's leading economic and military power, and do everything you can to help steer it in the right direction. That's where the "redeem the world" action would seem to be.
Phil, Phil, Phil.... :-)
>> "We need our own country, because what if America goes Nazi?"
This has long been the refrain of many Jews, especially in the wake of the Holocaust. But the truth is, it's a lame answer. Not because it's wrong but because it misses the point. The Land wasn't intended to be simply a refuge from Pharaohs then and now; The Land is a major plot point -- a real, physical fact -- that asks the world an uncomfortable question: Is the Jewish Story true?
To respond "yes" is to open up a bunch of other questions that we've been running from since we got tossed out of Eden. Chief among them: Who's in charge here? And we keep answering: "Us. We're in charge. No one will tell us what to do. We will build Babel after Babel, worshipping false idols like technology, weaponry, and Artificial Intelligence. Nothing can stop us. WE are gods."
To which the Voice of Jewish (and Christian) tradition says: Ooookay... if that's what you kids want! Have fun storming the castle!
You write, "The Land is a major plot point -- a real, physical fact -- that asks the world an uncomfortable question: Is the Jewish Story true?"
I stand corrected. You're right, and I completely missed that point.
According to near death experience reports, the story is essentially true, except for the part about it being an explicitly Jewish or Christian story. Put another way, God exists, but is not anybody's property. Or so that story goes.